Educational technologist and CEO/ Co-Founder of Breakout EDU, Adam Bellow, talks us through:
Adam Bellow
So in English, you know, I don’t understand this phrasing this preposition or whatever. Oh, no, don’t worry, don’t struggle with it. Let me assist you by giving you the answer and saying, do you understand and you’ll nod your head. Here, it’s literally like they have to try. And the failure like this concept of failing as being bad on breakout every time you try combination, most of the time, you’re wrong until you’re right or wrong. So I think teachers have that opportunity to kind of watch the students engage in a way and be empowered to kind of own that learning experience. And it weighs much more differently than if they were just participating in something that’s slightly more passive.
Chelsea Metreyeon
Today we’re chatting with Adam Bellow from Breakout EDU. On this episode of Teacher Teacher.
Marcus Stein
Hey, friends, and welcome to Teacher Teacher, a podcast for teachers by teachers. I’m Marcus Stein, and I used to teach.
Chelsea Metreyeon
And I’m Chelsea Metreyeon. And I also used to teach every episode we’ll be bringing you insights and inspo from educators and experts all around the world,
Marcus Stein
helping you unwind, unpack or simply understand what’s going on out there.
Chelsea Metreyeon
Well, I don’t know about you, Marcus, but I’m excited.
Marcus Stein
Yeah, I’m excited to Let’s Do It. Chelsea, my girl, listen, today. I’m excited to talk about this topic, but I’m a little embarrassed. Okay. We are talking about student empowerment. And the reason I’m embarrassed is because when I was teaching, it was like y’all better sit down and be quiet. Y’all better not say nothing, you better not speak up. And so I’m excited that there’s a shift in teaching, I’m excited that things are moving to students having more agency, students leading the learning a little bit more. What were things like when you were teaching friend?
Chelsea Metreyeon
Well, it’s so funny, you say you’re embarrassed because I literally told someone yesterday that I wish I could back like time travel and know what I know now and go back and teach. So it probably would have looked a little bit more empowering and more engagement with their learning. But I didn’t know that back then just like you. So I’m excited to hear what we learn today.
Marcus Stein
I’m excited too, let’s go ahead and get into empowering students. Before we jump in, I just want to shout out to Kami for producing this podcast, just like you Kami wants to empower students to love learning in or out of the classroom. Kami can level up the way you teach, give feedback and assess head to kamiapp.com to find out more. All right, let’s start the show.
Chelsea Metreyeon
Today we’re chatting with the one and only Adam Bellow. Adam is an educational technologist and the CEO and co founder of Breakout EDU, the immersive gaming platform that transforms classrooms into places of discovery. Thank you, Adam, so much for being here with us today. And we’re gonna get started and can you please first tell us a little bit about who you are what you’re all about what makes you tick?
Adam Bellow
Uh, sure. So that’s such a big question. Well, I’m I started as a classroom educator from New York, I was a high school English teacher way back when I wound up working as a as a TOSA: a Technology Training Specialist, for a school district, and then wound up doing a stint as a Technology Director for 18 schools that were across the country. And then throughout that period, I got really into building education technology companies. I did a lot of speaking on, on EdTech topics and talking about how education technology could augment and enhance education. So really passionate about EdTech been in the space for a while, have built a number of tools, eduTecher, eduClipper, WeLearnedIt and most recently, I’m the co founder and CEO of Breakout EDU. So just been doing lots of stuff in the EdTech space and just love love learning and love sharing new ideas with folks.
Chelsea Metreyeon
Wow, you have just like an amazing portfolio of things that you’ve accomplished in your life and what kind of brought you to EdTech in the first place?
Marcus Stein
We need to step it up. Yeah, we need to do more. Girl, what I mean, I’m okay, I cut the grass today.
Adam Bellow
That’s good. That’s good. I’ve got 400 years on you Marcus. So you’re good. You’re, you know, all in good time.
Chelsea Metreyeon
So he’s also made a time travel machine that I’m guessing because that’s…
Marcus Stein
Brilliant.
Chelsea Metreyeon
So what brought you to this EdTech in the first place? What kind of was your your step off point from those TOSA roles in that teaching role?
Adam Bellow
Yeah, that’s a great question. I feel like it wasn’t intentional. You know, there’s a lot of people that I have sought out advice for me in terms of like, I want to make that move. For me. It was almost accidental. I was working as a as an adjunct professor at Hunter College and wound up teaching the graduate level course that I had just taken. So I basically walked out of the course they’re like, Would you like to teach this next semester? And I’m like, Sure. So I wound up teaching about education technology, and how tools could help augment the special education technology, specifically. And one of the things I started doing was collecting tools that I would share with my students. And because I had a really terrible memory, and I didn’t want to do anything formal blogging, or anything like that, at the time, I just started building my own website. So I built this thing called eduTecher which was literally designed for 30 kids or 25 kids that were, you know, kids, young adults that were taking this course with me. And then very quickly, I realized, like, oh, it’s the internet, like, somehow people put it on Twitter. And this was like early, early Twitter days, like 2017. And, you know, wound up finding that there was a resource that helped people. So I spent a tremendous amount of time, over the next five, six years, building what wound up being a custom social network, it was the first iOS app for teachers, focused on tools, I made training videos, and a whole bunch of things that really were focused on finding new tools, which I found really exciting. And I was still working as the TOSA at the time and with with students. And so I would wind up basically doing research and then helping myself and others at the same time. And then from there, it just kind of evolved, I really fell in love with the EdTech space made a tremendous amount of really close and wonderful friends that I to this day, I’m still extremely, you know, extremely lucky to have them as friends, but also just respect their careers and the paths that they’ve taken, whether it be in the classroom, or people that have done other, they’ve gone on to other things as well. So yeah, it’s been it’s been a crazy, accidental journey, so to speak.
Marcus Stein
Same, I kind of feel that way about how I got to where I am. I too, fell into the EdTech world from a suggestion. You know, somebody suggested, you know, you should lead the PD on technology. And so I started leading professional development. And next thing you know, I’m doing it professionally. So Oh, I love how organic your origin story is for EdTech. I also love that like Chelsea and I, your former teacher.
Chelsea Metreyeon
Yeah,
Adam Bellow
yeah.
Chelsea Metreyeon
Yeah.
Adam Bellow
What did you teach Marcus? And what did you teach Chelsea?
Chelsea Metreyeon
I taught kindergarten. But then I also taught K five and then I also went back to kindergarten, so lower elementary.
Marcus Stein
Like you Adam Bellow. I taught high school English. Ha!
Adam Bellow
Amazing!
Marcus Stein
Yes, we’ll get into the similarities shortly. But I want to bring it back to today’s topic, today’s theme, which is about teachers, going beyond engagement and focusing more on student empowerment. So before we go too deep, I’d like for you to clarify the difference between engagement and empowerment?
Adam Bellow
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that’s, that’s a wonderful, wonderful question. And I feel like there’s there’s a lot to that answer. I feel like engagement is, you know, engagement is definitely something we strive for in the classroom. We want kids to be engaged, we want people to be sitting up and paying attention and being invested in what they’re doing. You can be engaged though, watching some sort of YouTube video or, you know, engaging in content like educational game quiz. Yeah, it holds your attention, you’re, you’re engaged to a point for a certain amount of time. I think empowerment is really kind of that holy grail of where we’re trying to get these kids to go, where it’s being able to advocate being able to kind of see why things matter to themselves. And being able to kind of take the charge and make the learning happen as an active participant as opposed to you can be engaged and passive at the same time. You know, I’m engaged when I’m playing a video game, but I’m not fully, you know, there’s an element that’s not fully present. And I think that empowerment is when you’re able to make those decisions when it matters more. And you, you understand that it’s a bigger part of just the learning process, as opposed to something that you’re marshaling through.
Marcus Stein
Like you said a lot to unpack. It was almost like a loaded question. I apologize for it now, because there’s layers and layers and layers and layers to it, like you said, um, but the one thing I did sort of pick up from what you’re saying is that empowerment is when you act and you’re more of a agent in the learning as opposed to, you could passively engage in something, you could sit there and watch SpongeBob all day and be engaged with SpongeBob. But that doesn’t mean you’re, you’re empowered and you’re actively participating in that. Um, so my, my next question is kind of like a follow up, is, why does empowerment matter? Because when I was in the classroom, it was like, engage, engage, engage. I don’t even think anybody mentioned the word empowerment until after I left the classroom that was not a buzzword when I was teaching. So I want to know, like, why is empowerment so important?
Adam Bellow
Yeah, I mean, I think empowerment is important because every student should have agency, you know, real life is not school. And I think that, that, you know, and I’m the father of a child that has special needs. And I think that, you know, one of the big things that we work on just personally is agency and being able to advocate for oneself, and being empowered in a situation to kind of know your contribution, know your value, and also know when you need assistance. And I think, you know, empowering our learners, there’s a lot, it goes to, like, you know, I always think, to the argument of like, PBL, where it’s like learning that matters, when it’s projects that are not recipe projects, but it’s actually like, hey, there’s an actual problem, and you have to come up with a solution, it matters so much more to those learners, because they are literally empowered to not only find the solution, not only do the work and do the thing that is being asked of them, but they are actually empowered to do something that has meaning and gravitas that is beyond like, Okay, you’re going to do this, and it’s grade. And so I think that empowerment really shows the the learners of all ages, you know, as young as, as those kindergarteners that you were teaching Chelsea, and as and as old as the teachers themselves that are now you know, not not to say any teacher is old, but, you know, you should be understanding that, that your, what you do has value, what you do has meaning and what you do has consequence. And I think that that’s, you know, truly important for all learners to understand from a young age, so that they are able to kind of, you know, see the learning and see the process as not just something that they have to go through, but they’re actually an active part of so it goes back to active engagement, right? I mean, they’re actively engaged in being empowered through, you know, to to make a valid contribution or change.
Marcus Stein
I’m firing, like, my neurons are just so activated, because because you brought up PBL. So Project-based Learning, for those of you who haven’t touched it, don’t know what PBL is, that’s a really good kind of right there type of thing that a teacher could try to give kids more empowerment in their learning is, try something that’s not a recipe, canned project, go open it up, you know, look up some PBL ideas and let these kids have some agency in the concepts that you’re trying to teach. I like that. So PBL, write that down, y’all write that down.
Chelsea Metreyeon
And Marcus, I was thinking back to the one episode that we did, and you were talking about your rock show that you put on when you were a student, because you loved rock. So you did a whole project about rocks, and you got your teacher gave you that opportunity to do it the way you wanted to do it. And it also made me think of my brother, he hated the traditional classroom setting like he wanted to play his guitar, he didn’t want to sit there, he’s too smart to sit there. So my mom ended up pulling him out into a charter school where he got to choose what courses he was taking. It was mostly at home one day a week at the school. But he got to do all the own lessons, like if he took a cooking class. So that was just him teaching himself how to cook and but it empowered him to do the learning that he wanted to do still get his high school diploma, but in a non traditional way. So those were the two things that what you just said made me think of. And since you and me and Marcus are in the EdTech world, what role does technology play in helping teachers empower their students?
Adam Bellow
Ah, that’s, I mean, it’s such a good one. And I feel like my opinion on this has really evolved over time. I think that that’s, you know, when I first started, I was so focused on the tools, and it’s and it’s funny, because both of us, I mean, you guys work at Kami, I’m working a Breakout and building an EdTech, you know, entity, right? Like I’m working on product products. And I think that, you know, it’s really important to see those and their place in the classroom. And that’s how I my lens has kind of changed originally, it was very focused on like, Hey, this is a cool tool that, you know, either is a replacement for something that exists that is traditional, and I didn’t necessarily think whether it’s good or bad, it just was something that people were doing. So it’s like, oh, I’ll just use this as a replication tool. I’ve looked at it much more deeply over the last probably decade as as something that’s augmentative. So technology can provide students with an opportunity to to interact with or create more importantly, things that didn’t exist before and that they couldn’t do in a different way. So it’s not just like oh, they have access to all the information and content or whatever it’s like it’s it’s literally, you know, Kami is a good example because you can interact with a tool, you can interact with something that ordinarily is static and very different. And, you know, the technology itself, I think allows for that, that next level thing for example, so I created a product about a long time ago now called WeLearnedIt. And it was a, a really kind of multimedia based, like presentation tool. And the idea was that it was going to be for project based learning, it was going to be a portfolio that would grow with students over time. And the feedback mechanisms were all, you know, teachers could annotate and narrate on top of the student’s work. And students could record video notes, and they can record audio notes. And like it was very, very multi dimensional. Whereas most of the stuff at the time was a comment in a Google Doc or a, you know, like, you could snap a picture of something and upload it, you know, like that, that was kind of as cutting edge as it was at the time. But it’s really about like the technology that you then could have students drawing on top of their iPad to kind of annotate and walk you through any sort of presentation was really that next component. So that’s what I hope technology provides going forward is like that extra layer on top, and it’s an essential piece, it’s not, let me take the back, it’s not the layer on top, it’s really the essential kind of glue that holds together, what you’re asking the student or the learner to do and make that next level opportunity for them to create something different, and meaningful, hopefully,
Chelsea Metreyeon
Yeah, and it gives them that freedom to do what they want to do or how they see that project being it doesn’t limit them in a piece of paper that they’re drawing a picture and writing documents. And actually shameless plug to Kami, all of those tools that you just mentioned, we do have that within Kami. So students do get that freedom, when they’re given a document to add. They can add a video, they can add voice comments, they can interact, all those different kinds of things that they can do. And use it as a presentation tool, all those things and teachers can, like you said, give them that empowerment, give them an assignment, kind of set them free and say these are the tools you have do it. How you how you want to do it. It’s very awesome.
Adam Bellow
Yeah, I love that. I love the technology component there. But I think that the teacher component is is the same, like level important. So you know, Marcus, the rocks presentation.
Marcus Stein
Oh, you have to listen to the episode. You have to listen to it. Okay, let’s just, it was basically we were talking to Jere Chang gifted teacher
Chelsea Metreyeon
Jere Chang. Yes.
Marcus Stein
I’m just about things that happen in a gifted classroom. And I was a gifted kid. And when we learned the unit on rocks, igneous, sedimentary, you know, metamorphic. We did a rock concert, where we remix the song, and we took the rocks and painted them and we put like hair on them. One, one of them had like a ponytail. And like we an aluminum disco ball. But like that, I think is a good example of me being an agent, being somebody who says, Okay, this is what I have to learn, you know, what excites me rock music, concerts. disco balls.
Adam Bellow
Yeah.
Marcus Stein
So it’s all looks like…
Chelsea Metreyeon
Do you know how I know, it worked? Do you know how know it worked? You still know all of those names of the rocks. I could not just names of rocks, but you know them. You learned through that lesson.
Adam Bellow
Hmm, that’s right. And I think that that’s, it’s a credit to the teacher, right, that let you have that experience where it’s like, you can express yourself in this way. And, you know, listen, it’s tough, I think especially, you know, it’s, it’s dichotomous, that we have all the technology to do these really immersive interactive projects, you know, kids could build stuff in Minecraft, and they could build a breakout game, and they could do and there’s a lot of opportunity for them to do different technical and digital type projects, there’s a lot of stuff. But it also for the teacher means that there is… there has to be openness for that to be a meaningful form of their understanding and learning. And, you know, you need to have both, and I kudos to your teacher is way back when and kudos to all those teachers now that are allowing, not just like a hey, do the worksheet type mentality, to allowing students to show their their understanding and their comprehension of the content.
Marcus Stein
Keeping the conversation going about tech, I want to add on to to some things that you just shared. Let’s just state the obvious there is a lot of tech in today’s classroom. There’s a lot of stuff. There’s technology everywhere now. So what are some things that you would say a teacher needs to keep mindful when choosing what to pick and use when they’re focusing on empowerment?
Adam Bellow
Yeah. Oh, that’s such a good question. My biggest tip for that would be to choose one thing at a time. I think a lot of times you know, teachers, they go to the mandatory PD once a year or go to a conference, and they’ll sit through a session of 55 tools to use in your classroom today. And I think that the filt, you know, best of intentions to try to integrate all of these cool things. And the truth is, a lot of them are very cool. And they’re, they’re worth trying. But I think that the measured idea of how to try them one at a time, and be able to kind of go through an evaluation process for if it works for you as as an educator, and, and equally importantly, obviously, if it works for your students in their learning environment, you know, there are certain apps and tools and tools that I think are really incredible in terms of the value that they bring, but you then have to think of your of your school and you think about you know, your the kids that you serve, are you are you in a classroom where they don’t have access, you know, to One to One iPads, and you know, all these all these other additional technology components that are specific to a device. You know, technology is very seductive in that way, where it where it does, you know, I’m a giant nerd, and I love looking at, you know, the new augmented reality stuff. And I look at all that like, like, I love all the toys, and the gadgets and all that stuff. But I think it’s really important to kind of evaluate it through a lens of A: is this appropriate for my class? And whether that be what they have access to? And most importantly, like, will it will it actually bring more to the classroom to the learning experience, beyond the momentary engagement, you know, you think back to interactive whiteboards, you know, not not picking on any particular brands, but it was a giant trend in the early 2000s, to put a whiteboard in every single room. And I, you know, I was training people on how to use them effectively. But I saw many, many classrooms where literally, it was just used as a projector. Because the training like they didn’t, we didn’t have time to evaluate what to do with these things. So the money was spent the district bought onto it, they had the training, all that stuff. But the teacher themselves had no agency as the teacher to determine what was going to be useful and helpful for their classroom. And I think that the technology, especially the technology, now allows the students to create, the more tools that allow students to actually create and make something is really where you start transferring that ownership of learning, because getting a kid to take a quiz online and hit the same buttons that all their peers are and just trying to do it faster for an assessment is not as exciting to me as building their own game or building, you know, something that that has intrinsic value to both them as a as a engaged learner, and also shows off what they comprehend from the content they’ve interacted with, as well as any additional things they bring to the table.
Marcus Stein
Y’all. I want y’all to rewind that whole section over and over. Because that’s huge. We know you have a lot of stuff teachers, we know sometimes it’s hard to choose what to use, and when. And then you feel bad because you got stuff collecting dust in the closet, and there’s stuff you don’t use. And I think what you said Adam is important, you don’t have to use it all at the same time, like one thing at a time. And ask yourself as you’re using the stuff. Does it make sense? Like, am I giving the kids something to create? Or do? Am I giving them room to be empowered? Or am I just using it, but I’m gonna click the same buttons that the rest of the you know, like, I love that. So please hit rewind.
Chelsea Metreyeon
And Adam, you mentioned Breakout EDU is your latest creation. So it’s a platform that incorporates games into learning, which sounds awesome to me. I wish I had it when one when I was in school, but also when I was teaching. Can you tell us more about it? And also why games in education?
Adam Bellow
Sure, sure. So let me start at the at the end of that with why games in education. And then I’ll talk more about breakout a little bit. But you know, I think it goes back to that original question that Marcus asked about engagement and empowerment. You know, games, when we hear the word games we think of, you know, either Mario Brothers or you know, if you’re old like me, or you think of, you know, kids today think of Minecraft, or they think of, you know, Fortnite or anything else like that. I think games get a bad rap because we see them as like popcorn glow most like the big superhero movies. Like they’re engaging, they’re, they’re, they’re entertaining and and they’re, they’re, you know, not much value add beyond that. With Breakout, the approach is actually extremely different from from traditional games and education. The idea was born out of the escape room, so you know, add an escape room for those that have not done it is basically usually these are like strip malls you pay like $30 or $50 to get locked in a room literally with strangers or friends. And then you have to solve really, really hard problems to break out of the room. So your challenge is to think as hard as you can to solve these really complex things. Sometimes they involve history, sometimes they involve, you know, language. And, you know, that is basically what we want kids to do in classrooms. So that’s how the idea for Breakout started, that my co founder went to an escape room and said, Hey, kids don’t work this hard in classes, why? Why shouldn’t we figure out a way to harness that excitement, and really, engagement and ownership of learning because it’s not a teacher telling them what to do, it’s literally they figuring out with their peers what to do. So that’s what breakout is based on. We do we sell a product, that’s a box with a series of locks, there’s 2000 games that you can play with the same setup. And so teachers set up these boxes. And they basically, you know, that the old EdTech adage of, you want to be the sage on the stage versus the guy, you want to be the guide on the side versus the sage on the stage. Well break out there really is forced to be true, because as a facilitator of the experience, you do have to watch your kids learn. And it is the most amazing, amazing experience to see how these kids think and go through the motions and, you know, experience this content, it’s really just incredible. So, yeah, it’s, it’s been a lot of fun. We have a digital game builder. So we have kids creating their own content, we have digital games, we have something called the lock of the day, which every day brings out a new piece of content for students to interact with. It’s great for like do nows and bell ringers. And we’re, we’re just warming up. There’s a lot of really, really cool stuff that we’re building for for the coming year. But it is something that, you know, is very simple in some ways, but it’s very unique in the EdTech space. And again, I’ve I spent my early ed tech career cataloging literally over I think eduTech or had 1600 tools. And I’ve watched very closely as all these other tools, even the ones that are in the gaming space have come out, I still think that Breakout is is I love watching people play Breakout, I love watching people participate in that because they really have a relationship to the learning that is unlike anything else. So that’s kind of a little bit about what it is, you know, obviously people can can Google it and go to breakoutedu.com To learn more, but super fun to work on that and get to, you know, my one of my favorite things is looking on Twitter. And and I’m sure you feel this way, you know, with any product, right? So I’m sure with Kami, you’re looking at like the responses on Twitter and teachers posting pictures or kids saying like, it was great, because I got to do you know, X, Y, and Z with the product. Every day, I see hundreds of pictures of classrooms all around the world, with kids playing games and having fun with, you know, a very unique product. So it’s super fun.
Chelsea Metreyeon
Yeah, that is so exciting. Actually, the highlight of my Kami career so far was I got to help a little girl navigate Kami. She was having some issues. And I hopped on a district call with them and figured it out. She was easily a first grader and I hopped on I didn’t know the student was going to be there. And I’m like, oh my god you’re using Kami! So I know your feeling of seeing those Twitter posts, because it definitely like brings like some happiness. And you just said they get to watch their students learning what is like a sign that you’re doing something right, when you’re watching your students and seeing them being empowered in their learning?
Adam Bellow
Yeah, that’s a really good question. So I think that the way we like to think about is when students are having those deep conversations, because breakout brings out again, like they’re racing the clock, there’s teamwork, there’s the four C’s, those SEL skills that are so important that are just literally no one’s telling them, Hey, you’re going to work on this, like it’s happening. And so as a teacher, you get to see students that may be more shy students that may be, you know, sometimes look, bullying is real, and all those other social dynamics and classrooms come out. But they get to observe how the students both react, and also how they interact with each other. And so, you know, I think teachers get to see different sides of their learners. It’s not passive where they’re sitting in class and raising their hand politely saying, I know the answer I want to contribute, they’re forced to contribute these kids and the teachers are literally forced to stare at them in a very different manner than than traditional classes. So I think you learn a lot about your your students, and I think as a teacher, you have the extra opportunity. And this is not just through breakout, although, you know, the example will be breakout, but I think it can go to other things. Teachers can intercede and help to steer the learning journey in the experience, based on the behavior there’s that they’re watching. Because there’s more student ownership of the experience. And literally kids are taking charge, like teachers are not allowed to talk unless they’re handed a handcart like that’s the rule, right? Teachers don’t help. They have to observe. So…
Chelsea Metreyeon
I love that.
Adam Bellow
You’re forced to experience that Oh, it’s great. I mean, it is great because you you know as a teacher, you’re always your first inclination, at least mine was was to always offer help, right? Because that’s your job. You’re trying to teach something so in English, you know, I don’t understand this phrasing this preposition or whatever. And I come over Oh, no, don’t worry. Don’t struggle with it. Let me assist you by giving knew the answer and saying Do you understand and you’ll nod your head. Here, it’s literally like they have to try. And the failure like this, this concept of failing as being bad, with Breakout every time you try combination, most of the time you’re wrong. Until you’re right, you’re wrong. So you pull on a lock, and you’re like, wait a minute, I am definitely wrong. But as opposed to in class, where it’s like, oh, I got it wrong, I still get a B, or I’m fine. And I go forward. In this, you pull on the lock, and you’re like, given tactile feedback that you’re incorrect, and yet you still persist. So I think teachers have that opportunity to kind of watch the students engage in a way and be empowered to kind of own that learning experience. And it weighs much more differently than if they were just participating in something that that’s slightly more passive.
Marcus Stein
I’ve been waiting to have this moment, I’ve been waiting to have this moment to talk about Breakout EDU. I’ve been waiting for this moment, because I’ve been around since the days when you had the Amazon shopping list. And you could get your own Breakout box if I ordered it on Amazon, because it got so popular, so fast. Um, I cannot applaud you enough for pushing me as a teacher and as a tech leader, to hush to zip it. And to really take a step back and just be like, Let them struggle, or let them succeed, let it just let it happen. They will tell you when you need help, because you’ve set up the assignment as such, it is a great way to push you and the students to have more agency, because the roles are defined when you do a breakout. Me personally, it brings out some traits that people don’t realize I have. I’m not a good team player, let me just go ahead and say it and I. And when we do breakouts, I’ll be the main one trying to solve everything myself. And so it forces you the best thing I can say about a breakout is it’s like a full body workout. When you go to the gym, and like your whole body has worked. And you’re like, dang, I need a nap. That’s a breakout experience. It’s not just going to teach you addition and ELA and reading strategies, you are going to learn how to work with a group, you’re going to learn how to not give up, you’re going to learn how to say uncle, like, you know, when you’ve had too much and your brain hurts and you’re like, oh, I need a hint card. It really is a great example of how to just try dip your toes in the water if you haven’t with student empowerment. I love a breakout.
Chelsea Metreyeon
It gives the teachers an opportunity that they may have not had before to see each individual student’s strengths and weaknesses because they’re seeing them working on their own personal thing and not a group project is raising their hand. So it gives them that opportunity and an opportunity to see kind of what sparks those students and what keeps them going on certain things. I love that idea of it too.
Adam Bellow
Yeah, I mean, and the other nice thing is like over the years, we’ve developed ways to kind of keep the learning going beyond the actual game itself. So early on, we introduced something called reflection cards. And then we’ve recently introduced or more recently introduced the four C cards. So it literally forces a conversation for the students to be introspective around. How was I a team player? What could I have done to contribute more, which was the most challenging thing and why shout out to other people so I would be like hey, Marcus, you did a great job when you thought of this thing even though it was wrong. You really did a great job coming up with a new idea to solve it… Oh c’mon
Marcus Stein
I wouldn’t get any shout-outs friend, they will be like Marcus was annoying to work with… Please don’t put me with Marcus again… Haha.
Adam Bellow
And you know what? To be honest, you it’s it facilitates questions like that, where the learner themselves and you as a participant would be like, did I let other people talk? Did other other people try their combinations whereas I listening to other ideas that I share my ideas? So well that’s another aspect of it that that I think is like super, super special because in learning we don’t have that very, you know, you get a scantron graded thing backwards like you were right, you were wrong. And that usually is where the feedback chain ends as opposed to like this experience post where it’s like you won or you or you didn’t win and that’s fine in terms of opening up the box or finishing the digital game. What was the learning like and so I love that what for me, that’s one of my my favorite moments is watching these students kind of take a step back they have that moment of excitement or like disappointment in terms of like, Ah, so close. But then they talk about their their ability to learn and their ability to share which is which is super fun.
Chelsea Metreyeon
And that expands on empowering them socially and emotionally as a human to their having to interact with their colleagues as they will have to for the rest of their life. The learning stretches them.
Marcus Stein
You have to learn that you’re are annoying. Like, I had to learn that I’m annoying in group settings, I had to learn
Adam Bellow
I’ve been told,
Marcus Stein
Hey, if you don’t learn it in that kind of safe classroom space, where else are you going to learn who you are, when you work as a team? It, it was enlightening. For me when I did my first breakout, I was like, number one, I’m dumb. Number two, I do not listen to people. Like it really was a reflect friend. You You had people were laughing at me, I’m like losing it, I’m getting frustrated. I walked away at one point just started texting. I was like, this is just I cannot This is not my kind of thing. But it taught me that that’s something I needed to grow on. It’s great for adults, too. Just so y’all know, it’s not just for the kids. Yeah,
Adam Bellow
it’s, we we do it a lot of, you know, teacher trainings, and we’ve done a lot of like administrative workshops and stuff like that. And it’s great for PD days, when instead of sitting that, you know, mandatory PD days where you have to sit there and listen. It’s like when I play a game, we have several games, games called the faculty lounge. And it’s literally like, if you break out, you get to go home. So like they’re usually saved for the end of the day, the faster you do, yeah. So it, they’re super fun for that. And and it really lets you know, it focuses on learning in a very different way than I think teachers traditionally think about the learning. And organically, because I think that’s a lot of the things in education. And this goes back to this goes back to the tech tools that we use, this goes back to agency, this goes back to the beginning of the conversation to say like prescriptive learning is a very, very, you get the recipe you’re trying to make or a variation of it. When you kind of look at what the objectives are, and you backwards map it to saying like, I’m open to a rock concert, a rock show, you know, I’m open to a, you know, someone using Kami to do like, you know, audio and visual feedback versus just writing out an essay. These are the moments that allow for the students to not only shine but kind of take control of their learning. And it’s so much more meaningful, whether whether the product is amazing or not, as long as the teacher is open to it and the learner is encouraged to continue going. It those are those experiences that I think matter most to students.
Marcus Stein
I think that might be the bridge, the word open, you know, that might be the bridge that takes you from engagement to empowerment is you could be engaged in by rolling that CV in the class or right now. Like, alright, we engaged we are about to watch some Schoolhouse Rock, but to to open things up for empowerment, you gotta you gotta like take a risk, almost, you know, you really got to let things go in a direction that you can’t predict. Open up.
Adam Bellow
Yeah, yeah. Cuz engaged is not quiet and entertained. You know, like, and I think that those are, those are synonyms that people think of often. You know, it can be a very passive experience engagement is also that that moment of like, true discovery, right? Like, like, if I’m actively in any, it’s active versus passive engagement. I think that that’s kind of just the boil down piece of it. And there’s so many things in schools that we do is pacification, that seems like engagement because they’re engaged in the activity, but it’s not an activity that if you think if you think of it at the higher level, it’s like, Oh, what was the value being brought out of that? And what did the person bring to it themselves?
Marcus Stein
Adam, I’m gonna gush for a second because I look at you as an example of what it looks like to be empowered to, to own what it is you’re learning. I mean, you were an English teacher. You know, what English teacher do I know is doing the most like you with like Breakout. eduCliper, WeLearnedIt. And so my question for you is, what advice do you have for kids, or adults who have big ideas, but don’t feel empowered to lean into them?
Adam Bellow
Again, my journey is quite accidental. And I think that that’s, that’s part of that lesson, that kids don’t have to say, like, you know, you know that the age old adage, I’m going to be this when I grew up, you know, you can be anything you want. And I know that that’s such cliche advice, but I like to think of it you know, I’ll give you an actual story, because this is literally something I told my son, my son loves Dungeons and Dragons, and he wants to work for Wizards of the Coast one day. And so my advice to him was, I said, Listen, you he’s 13. And I said, you totally can like that is a totally logical thing. I said, let’s go on and look at the roles that they’re hiring for now. And see what those skills are that they’re looking for right now. And you’re 13 you can get really good at absolutely anything. So if you want to be a writer or a game designer or developer or whatever it is, backwards map what you want to be doing into this skills you need. And you may know and of course, I know that he may very well never end up in that company, or they may never end up doing that thing. But the idea of being understanding that your learning journey can start with what you want to do. And then really going back and learning something about it is, I think, really strong. I mean, again, it was my advice, but I think it was good advice. Because whether he follows up to the full extent, or whether it leads him in somewhere else, the ability to kind of know what it is that you need to do, and be empowered to do it, I think is really the key for all of those those learners, and that kids that want to be YouTube stars and kids that want to be whatever, it’s fine, anything is possible for them to go do, they just need to put in the work. And realize that it’s not just luck, although that’s a piece of it. But to carve out something you need to own that, like you need to be hungry for it and not stop when you hit failure because failure, you know, with breakout, you hit a lock and you don’t open it, you have to keep going or you lose the game in life is the same way. If you’re told to stop, or if you hit a wall, and you’re like, Well, I only have 10 followers on my YouTube channel, I’m not a big YouTube success. If you stopped working on it, you’ll never be one. But if you keep working on it, because that’s your passion, and that’s what you’re interested in, then it almost doesn’t matter what level you achieve, you’re still getting better along the way. And that’s when I think people often disconnect like with kids, it’s like, you’re never going to get the end product. Like I want to be a star, I want to design a game. Well, you’re not going to start with designing a game, you’re going to start with writing Hello world, as a developer, once you get that you’ll get a little closer. So yeah, you know, perseverance is the most important skill for all of these learners. And it’s something that school doesn’t do very well. Teachers do extremely well. But the concept of school, traditional school does a very poor job of getting perseverance, because the end goal is like, I’ve done enough output to prove 100% or 85%, or whatever their you know, letter grade or whatever. But for kids having a goal that’s well beyond, you know, I showed mastery of this fractional notional piece of content. And it’s more about like, I wanted to do something, and I did it. I wanted to write a book on something, I wanted to make a movie about something, I wanted to be a dancer or a singer. And it’s not just the arts, obviously, it could be any actual, you know, I wanted to, you know, study rocks and become the word, you know, a geologist that knows, whatever. So there’s possibilities are unless, and I think that for students, it’s that empowerment of saying, yes, you can, what do you need to get help with? Like, how can I assist you? And I think that that’s teachers, great teachers do that really well, where they literally say, you know, I don’t I don’t know that I’m not an expert in, you know, being a YouTuber, but what can I do to support you, like, I can help you find resources to help you, you know, I’ll give you comments, I’ll help read your scripts, I’ll edit, you know, look at your videos and give you feedback, like, anyone can provide that type of feedback for those kids. And, you know, I’m fortunate to say that my kids, teachers, and many, many of the teachers that I know, do just that, they take that extra step and they empower those kids to be more than just a participant, but to actually have empowerment over their own learning.
Chelsea Metreyeon
So is your next professional career. motivational speaking, because you like just, I’m like, Oh,
Marcus Stein
I’m gonna go do some stuff now.
Chelsea Metreyeon
Because that was just so like, uplifting and amazing. So you could be a motivational speaker. I’m suggesting that to you now. Maybe I’ll see you next year. And I’ll know that I suggested it.
Marcus Stein
It’s such a great really good idea though. Like such a great like, you know what, I do need to look further into who I want to be what I want to be and there are things I could be doing today to bring myself closer to that little things not even you know, it doesn’t have to be overwhelming. Um, what a great way to frame how to get over that inertia. You know how to get over that that hump and focus on empowering yourself. Oh, bright. Adam Bellow. OKAY. Right now. I like them. Well, friends, I am feeling him power. I feel like I could do anything I have super appreciative to have Adam Bellow here. So many nuggets of information. Once again, I don’t even know what to think of as a favorite. I just love the overall feeling of I can do more today. Thank you for that, Adam.
Chelsea Metreyeon
Yeah, and I loved the idea of just because you’re engaged does not mean you’re empowered or interacting correctly with what you’re engaging with. So in my personal life, but thinking back to students definitely empowering them more to be engaged with what they’re learning, but know what they’re learning and why they’re learning and like, love what they’re learning. So thank you.
Adam Bellow
Thank you. I mean, thank you guys for for asking me to come in and chat and I love talking to people that have a passion and are working on tools that that matter to them and obviously matter to all their their users. I think I told you there was during the break or whatever, like my kids use Kami. So, you know, big shout out there. You know, I love. I love that it’s a space where the people that are in it, by and large are there for the right reasons. That’s what makes this awesome is that everyone can bring like, what they’re what they’re passionate about, or what they’re most wanting to solve or change to the equation. So it was great to chat. And thank you so much for letting me hang out with you guys.
Marcus Stein
Friends, it’s time for us to go. Womp womp. But we’ll be back.
Chelsea Metreyeon
Thanks to our fabulous guest. It’s been awesome chatting with you today.
Marcus Stein
Everybody out there. Listen, we want to hear your thoughts on this episode. You could catch us on the social medias as @kamiapp
Chelsea Metreyeon
and make sure you use the #teacherteacher
Marcus Stein
and if you need the show notes, the transcript or other resources we got you head over to our website kamiapp.com/podcast for all of the podcast goodness.
Chelsea Metreyeon
Teacher Teacher was brought to you by Kami an interactive learning platform with intuitive tools to not only help you reimagine lessons, assignments and feedback, but to help your students love learning.
Marcus Stein
This episode was hosted by my girl Chelsea Metreon and yours truly, Marcus Stein.
Chelsea Metreyeon
Catch you next time.
Marcus Stein
See ya friends
