Dr. Desiree Alexander 0:04
It really is making sure that all of our students have what they need to be successful. But it’s also taking a part those words themselves. What does that mean? Who’s measuring success? Who is defining success? So when we say we’re giving each student what they need to be successful, what does that really mean, right? It’s a lot of loaded language.
Chelsea Metreyeon 0:26
Today, we’re chatting with Dr. Desiree Alexander about equity in the classroom. On today’s episode of Teacher Teacher.
Marcus Stein 0:38
Hey, friends, and welcome to Teacher Teacher, a podcast for teachers by teachers. I’m Marcus Stein, and I used to teach.
Chelsea Metreyeon 0:46
and I’m Chelsea Metreyeon. And I also used to teach. Every episode we’ll be bringing you insights and inspo from educators and experts all around the world,
Marcus Stein 0:56
helping you unwind, unpack or simply understand what’s going on out there.
Chelsea Metreyeon 1:01
Well, I don’t know about you, Marcus, but I’m excited.
Marcus Stein 1:04
Yeah, I’m excited too. Let’s do it!
Chelsea, today, we are talking about something that I think is like, almost like a mystery, at least in my brain. And it’s equity. I hear the word a lot. People talk about it a lot in the classroom. But I’m no expert. So I’m kind of glad we having this conversation today. What do you think about equity?
Chelsea Metreyeon 1:30
Same thing, how you just said it’s a mystery. I’m like, yeah, I’ve heard that word, but like, what does it mean? So I’m very excited to dive deeper into that topic today.
Marcus Stein 1:41
Before we jump in, I just want to shout out to Kami for producing this podcast. Just like you, Kami wants to empower students to love learning. In or out of the classroom, Kami can level up the way you teach your feedback and assess. Head to kamiapp.com to find out more. All right, let’s start the show.
Chelsea Metreyeon 2:03
Today, we’re catching up with Dr. Desiree Alexander, Founder, CEO of Educator Alexander Consulting, LLC, and the Deputy Director for the Associated Professional Educators of Louisiana. Welcome Desiree. So we know you’re a Kami hero, but for our listeners out there who don’t know you, can you please tell us a little bit about yourself?
Dr. Desiree Alexander 2:27
Of course, um, well, I started my career as a sixth grade and eighth grade English teacher, became a high school English teacher, middle school librarian, high school librarian, and then district level Instructional Technology Supervisor. So, now I am the founder, CEO of Educator Alexander Consulting, and the deputy director for a nonprofit in the state of Louisiana, called the Associated Professional Educators of Louisiana. So that is my 20 years in Education so far, and I love it.
Chelsea Metreyeon 3:04
So far…that made me exhausted just thinking about all things you’ve done.
Marcus Stein 3:08
I’m like Ooh, girl… how you fit all that in?
Dr. Desiree Alexander 3:14
I mean, to only be 28 right and to have done that stuff is amazing.
Chelsea Metreyeon 3:20
At the ripe age of eight years old that… haha!
Marcus Stein 3:24
Wow, just brilliant. Well, thank you. Thank you so much. Dr. Desiree Alexander for being here. Desiree our Kami Hero, uh, one of our Kami’s BFFs. Today, we’re having a talk about equity in the classroom, and how we can use it to empower our students. So let’s just get this out of the way, what would be your definition of equity in education?
Dr. Desiree Alexander 3:51
I think just the overall definition of equity is making sure that everyone has what they individually need to be successful. When we talk about equity and education, I think it gets it gets skewed a whole bunch where people don’t quite know what it means. And then they apply the “label” to a whole bunch of stuff. But it really is making sure that all of our students have you know what they need to be successful, but it’s also taking apart those words themselves. So one of the words that I started to really focus on is success. What does that mean? Who’s measuring success who is defining success? So when we say we’re giving each student what they need to be successful? What does that really mean? Right? It’s a lot of loaded language. So successful in tests? Right? Successful according to the popular our, you know, group? You know, what is success? So it’s just one of those things where when you start really digging into equity, but you know, beyond the kind of basic level definition, it can go as deep and as deep and as deep as you want it to go.
Marcus Stein 5:17
Well, I want to unpack the word success, because that’s like that you flipped the switch in my head. I was like, wait a minute, we… you can’t really talk about equity. If you can’t define what the benchmark of success is for each individual person.
Dr. Desiree Alexander 5:30
Marcus Stein 5:30
You know what I’m saying it like, like, you can say… All right, everybody in here, the goal is for everybody to grow a ponytail. Well, sweetie, not everybody want a ponytail. So that’s not what everybody defines as successful.
Dr. Desiree Alexander 5:44
Marcus Stein 5:44
And so let’s have a conversation about success. And then once we better understand what each person needs, then you can sort of cater, I’m having a moment. Sorry, I’m just having a whole brain synapse right now. Um…
Dr. Desiree Alexander 5:59
that’s when I… Marcus. When I first… When it first came to my mind, like, Wait, what is it like what is success? And kind of just opens it wide open, like, wait. So I get started bringing a lot of stuff that we say, kind of down, and I don’t want to be that word snob. But it started making me like, look at a lot of things that we say as a positive. But I’m like, but is it? So one of those one of those that, you know, I hear a lot, and I used to say definitely I kind of stopped is “Black Excellence”. Because I was like, black excellence on whose scale? Why does it have to be? Like, I just think it’s excellence. Like, I think that I define excellence. So do we have to categorise it as black excellence? Or is it just excellence?
Marcus Stein 6:52
If you’re just being excellent, you are just excellent period, point blank. Period.
Dr. Desiree Alexander 6:55
Rise to my excellence, versus it being a subcategory of excellence. And I’m like, Wait, hold on now… No no no no no. Just how about this capital E excellence? How about that? So is this like, we really start looking at some of the terminologies and it’s like… Hmm. Like, a lot of it deals with othering. A lot of it deals with, we’re defining things according to the main group. And he’s like both, so we need to whoo
Marcus Stein 7:31
hoo, I want to say, girl, you got me dive down a rabbit hole. So what? So what would you say is the general consensus of success like this, this, we want every student to succeed? They got a whole ‘Every Student Succeeds Act’. So what is the general success that you think the masses are defining it as?
Dr. Desiree Alexander 7:56
I think is the American dream, right? It’s the American dream, that was not a dream for so many people, you know, it wasn’t even a thought, for so many people or you know, not something attainable for so many people. So I think it’s still the American Dream, is still owning your home and owning the 2.5 cars with the 2.5 kids. And… There’s always a point five, I don’t understand where that quite comes from. But you might think that that’s still the level of success. And the only way you can get there is by having good test scores, is by going to a quote unquote, good college, is by finding a good job, you know, and so on, and so forth.
Marcus Stein 8:41
So we’re gonna need a three part series or four part series on this episode is what you’re saying…
Dr. Desiree Alexander 8:46
Pretty much! I think it all boils down to we have to get to the nitty gritty, it all boils down to, I feel like from my research and where my thought process is starting to go as why education was start, at least public education, is to maintain the status quo. Right? So I think it’s really all about maintaining that status quo, and letting a few rise, but keeping everybody where they are, because that’s the only way that those that do obtain stay there, you know, that they have obtained. Because if we all rise, then hold on, then what level am I on now? Now I’m just part of the populace. So just maintaining that status quo, whatever, whatever that means. I feel like education shifts to maintain it. And when it starts getting too crazy what I feel like it’s happening right now. It’s like, Wait, you’re teaching our students how to think and you’re teaching our students. I everybody’s the same way. No, no, no, no, no, we got to squash that. And I feel like that’s where we’re at right now.
Chelsea Metreyeon 9:56
And it’s such a bigger issue than just public ed too. It’s society, it’s the families that these students are in, because that whole time you were talking, I’m going to do a shameless plug to my brother. But his whole life, my family has always looked at him as less successful because I was the one that went to college, I was the one that did all the things that you’re supposed to do. But he’s been equally as successful as a musician, and now as like a personal trainer building his own business on his own. But because that’s not the norm, our family treated him a completely different way. So thinking of these students, they have what they’re learning in school, and then also those societal family pressures as well. And I love your idea of success, because the students might not even know what success to them looks like. So having that conversation with the students to figure out for them: What would success be for you? And what do you need to do to accomplish that? I loved everything you said.
It depends on my life, right?
Dr. Desiree Alexander 10:00
It depends on where I am right now. It depends. Sometimes success is getting out of the neighbourhood, sometimes success is staying in the neighbourhood and making it better sometimes, you know, and it’s one of those things where I had to watch start watching my own language, and I’m sorry, get really passionate, but after watching my own language, because I started saying stuff, like: We have to teach our students how to rise above. Well dang, how… What loaded crap is that? Like, what are you saying about where they are now? Like, you are automatically lessening them by saying, I have to teach… Anyway, but I thought I was doing good, right? We all learn. But I’m like, wait, but what does that what does that mean? And I think when I started questioning, that is when people started telling me, you need to become an educational leader, you don’t need to stay in the classroom, and I was like, slow your row….
Chelsea Metreyeon 11:43
I’m doing great where I am.
Dr. Desiree Alexander 11:44
I love being in the classroom, why are you lessing me being in the classroom? You know, I had to start telling people you need to slow down because, I’m achieving where I am. I don’t know what you see. But I’m awesome. Like, I don’t know what you’re what you’re looking at. But classroom teachers are amazing. So you know, leadership is not a title. So it’s just one of those things where, you know, we just kind of rethink a bunch of stuff.
Marcus Stein 12:11
Desiree, what I really like about the way this conversation has started is you’re actually giving people a starting point, which is to think about the things you say, think about the words you consume, and think about how loaded like a lot of these conversations are, and how they contribute to some of the inequities that are actually there. Just looking at the way you say things and frame things could have an impact. So thank you. Thank you. Speaking of challenges, let’s talk personal, let’s talk you… What challenges have you come across in terms of inequities in education? And how are you overcoming them personally?
Dr. Desiree Alexander 12:50
Right now, since I’m more on the presenter, side, man, um, we can definitely have some conversations, but I’m just thinking about from just all my educational experience, I guess I’ll go from there. Being a black female, you know, you definitely get pigeonholed into certain things and you can definitely get stereotyped. So, you know, anytime at faculty meetings are, you know, in conversations, if you raise a concern, if you raise a question, you know, you have to make sure that you are tempering yourself. So you don’t, quote unquote, come off as the angry black woman. Because, unfortunately, you know, we feel the burden of representing our entire race, and then sometimes representing our entire gender, whether that… I mean is not true is not good, but we know that that is what happens. So you know, you find yourself tampering and maybe not fighting for the things that you want to fight for. And when I kind of took that mentality, you know, I felt like I’ve grown grown grown every year, but I took that mentality into my presenting. So when I first became a presenter, I definitely want me to be the on the fence person I didn’t want to offend. I didn’t want to, you know, I probably wouldn’t have spoken about equity when I first presented because just like, you know, oh, they may pigeonhole me as the black person talking about black issues, even though equity is not just about race. Um, but anyway, um, but, you know, I grew and realised one of the biggest things I realised, I think it’s from a comment and I’m not going to go into that story, but a comment that I received from someone and one of my audiences is that if they don’t like me, because I’m a black female, they’re also not going to like me as a black female who’s being honest and truthful. So why not just be honest and truthful? Like they’re not gonna like me either way? What is the point? And that is one of the things that got me to really kind of let my guard down a little bit, and just start being truthful and honest. Like, if you don’t like what I have to say, you can absolutely go somewhere else.
Marcus Stein 15:24
Like, I want that tattooed on my chest. You don’t like it? You don’t like it? I’m still going to be honest, like you didn’t like me before I even opened my mouth. Like the inequity already existed before I walked in the room. And so you’re absolutely right. That’s a refreshing take. Why hold back, if it already is going to exist. So be honest, be truthful. Stand in your light Desiree.
Dr. Desiree Alexander 15:56
Right. And maybe bring some people along the way, right? Like when you’re truthful, and you tell your story and you tell your heart you help other people open up, you help other people say, hey, well, I want to speak my truth to our you know, our, I never thought about it that way. You know, I had a Google classroom that I would do while I still have it that I do my like five minute tips and stuff with and I usually turn off the class code. Apparently I didn’t. And I must have shown it in a video. So some lovely person went on. And we just wrote the N word over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, which is so sweet. And then, you know, I kind of went back and forth. And I should I show this to people? Like should I tell them that this happened? And first I was like, no, but then I went ahead and did it. And I put it on Twitter. And I was like, Yeah, this is this is the kind of stuff you know, that unfortunately, you have to deal with. And you know, I had comments from people going: I know, I’ve heard people talk about it. But until you show this, I really just didn’t, didn’t think it really existed. Like I didn’t really, you know, and it’s one of those things where, you know, it kind of flabbergasted me I’m like, How many people have to tell you that this is happening? But that’s okay. It still was a learning process for some people. So I was like, Well, hey, you know that that’s if anybody’s heart could change or to open or to say maybe I need to learn more. Why not? Why not show it.
Chelsea Metreyeon 17:29
Love that. Love that. So back to into the classroom, because we just talked about inequity, for yourself. But what would be the main problems teachers face when it comes to equity in the classroom?
Dr. Desiree Alexander 17:42
Not having equity in the classroom. Number one, not being able to bring representation in the classroom, not being able to talk about historical events, not being able to be truthful about themselves, not being able to talk about people that may not be represented in their classroom. You know, I always tell my teachers, when we think about equity, and you think about the representation side of equity, the first step is to make sure that all of your students are represented in the novels, in the worksheets, in the decorations. But that’s just the first step. Because if we don’t introduce them to people that they don’t see, then we are doing them a disservice. You know, that, like, we’re doing them a disservice, most students are going to run into people that, you know, they didn’t have in their little clique or circle when they were growing up. And they need to, they need to know, what’s a stereotype and what’s not. They need to know that one person doesn’t represent all they need to know that, you know, people exist. And notice I’m staying away from the word other. No, they’re not other people. They’re just people. There are people just like you that exist. And we need to know. So just one of those. You know, I think… I mean, that’s where it starts is this not being even able to be equitable. And it breaks my heart when I have conversations with teachers who are like, I would love to do that, but I can’t because I also want to feed my kids. Like, I also want to keep my job and it’s just, it’s heartbreaking.
Chelsea Metreyeon 19:29
Yeah, they’re so limited by what they’re able to do, even though if they want to do something more. And Marcus mentioned a little bit earlier about the students. So shifting back to the students, how do we empower them when it comes to equity? And what roles can they play in the pursuit of equity, especially on their own personal level, but then also recognising their peers?
Dr. Desiree Alexander 19:52
I think that’s one of the biggest things when I first started teaching and I started teaching a Civil Rights unit. So I taught The Civil Rights unit after the test, when I could really teach. So I’ve taught you know about hate crimes and hate symbols, we talk about the Holocaust, we talked about the civil rights movement, we talked about, you know, all these things. And one of the things I realized, I think it was after my first year teaching it is it just left my students depressed. Like, they were like, great. The world sucks. What else? Like what else is new? Thank you, Miss Alexander, you know? So I realized that when you’re having this conversation, you do have to tell your students, our show your students, or have your students think about, what can they do better, like you have to end on that you have to end on a bright note for your students. Because if not, then you are piling all this stuff on me. And I don’t know how I can help. And like I told my adults, you know, during everything that was happening through the pandemic, and the social unrest, and all the stuff that, you know, if you’re feeling this way, and you can pay your own bills, imagine how your children are feeling, right, like you can get up and drive somewhere if you want, if you really want to, right, but to imagine how they’re feeling because they are feeling completely powerless. So one of the things I added was, it all starts with me. So we talked about all of this, Hey, on, where does it start? So we said, it all starts with me. And we did an anti bullying campaign. It all starts with looking at somebody as the other it all starts with me not liking you because… Right? Not because of something you did to me, but just because you are who you are. So let’s start there. Let’s start with saying, I’m not going to be a part of that bullying system. Let’s start with saying, you know, if I see something, I’m gonna say something like, let’s start there. Because if we can eradicate it there, right? Then you’re gonna have less racist ideas, you’re gonna have less homophobic ideas, you’re gonna have that kind of. So, like, let’s start now. And I think is just to your question is so important to show that to our students. Like, what can I do in my space? You know, and part of that is getting the parents involved as well, right? Part of that is saying, you know, go and talk to your parents about this. Unfortunately, we know that we have racist parents, we know that we have non-racist parents, we know that we have homophobic parents, and we have no… So I mean, it’s one of those things we can only fight so much. Unfortunately, as an educator, you can’t bring them all into your house, and, you know, raise them as well. But, um, but even saying, you know, have this conversation. Let’s see what we can do better just in our little space is so important for our students. Because we don’t want to play I mean, that the world is heavy enough, right? It’s heavier for them than it was for us. Let’s be real, right? So we we got to start asking them, What can we do differently? What can you do differently? Let’s have that discussion. And they have ideas, they just get stifled so much. So what what can you do differently? Let’s this discuss that.
Chelsea Metreyeon 23:15
And bringing it into real life situations to like in the now, because I remember being in school, and I’m like, yeah, that happened years ago, like, what do I care? Like, I did care. But like, at the same time, you’re not thinking like, you’re not like thinking like, oh, this could happen right now. Like, what? But I like how you’re saying, like, bring it into the Now what could they do if something like that were to occur again. And then that helps connect them more to it, not just it’s some social studies unit that they have to pass for the test to be successful?
Dr. Desiree Alexander 23:47
Right. Just asking the simple question of how does this historical event represent itself today? Are we still dealing with this? Are we not? If we’re not, how did it change? Like just asking questions like that to bring it into the now. Right?
Chelsea Metreyeon 24:05
I like that a lot. And any advice you’d give to first time teachers and do’s or don’ts? Because they have a lot on their plates in the first place. But if there’s any, any dues to help them any don’ts to stay away from.
Dr. Desiree Alexander 24:23
I mean, I would say first of all, thank you for choosing the profession we need you know how important you are and know how much like all of us educators when we try to mama you, and daddy you, and aunty you ,and uncle you is from a place of love, because we want you to stay. We want you to replace us and we want you to be good. So that’s why that’s why we are we are fighting so hard for you to stay. Um, I think the do is to do have mercy and grace for yourself. We are all learning. I’m sitting here talking about equity and I’m sure that There’s something I’ve said or something almost say as soon as we hang up, that’s not right. And we’re all learning, right? We’re all learning. We’re all… It’s a journey is not somewhere that we’re like, we’re gonna, we’re never gonna get to the end right of equity. We’re never gonna be like, Oh, done check, like, we’re never going to get to the end. That doesn’t mean we’re never going to eradicate fill in the blank. But there’s always going to be something because it’s human nature, right? Is it going to be blue shirt, red shirt, or glasses, no glasses,
Chelsea Metreyeon 25:29
I know, woo! Glasses gang, haha!
Dr. Desiree Alexander 25:34
But it’s always going to be something right? We always have to have a hierarchy. This is part of human nature, we always have to feel more than somebody to feel better, unfortunately. So we’re never, we’re never going to be done with it. So give yourself some grace. You know, you’re gonna make mistakes is going to happen. That’s okay. Um, you know, that’s my do. I think my other do would be or maybe it could be a don’t. Don’t exclude your students on your learning journey. So tell them, I’m learning y’all. I say something. Let me know. Like, let me know if you’re like, Nah, it wasn’t cool. Like, let me know, because I’m learning. I’m open. because not everybody’s saying that, you know, I supposed to stick to my first year teachers, you think everybody is doing what you do? And they’re not? Okay? They’re not. So be open, tell your students that you’re open, tell them that you’re open to the conversation. What I used to teach my students is you can call me out on anything, but there’s a time and a place. Like, that’s what I used to tell him. Like, call me out in the middle of my lesson is not gonna be good for you. Like, that’s just not gonna be good for you. I’m just
Marcus Stein 26:46
You better not do it when I’m getting observed either your bed not do that.
Dr. Desiree Alexander 26:49
Right, especially when that administrator is in the back does not didn’t look for you, I promise you, I’m gonna be okay. Okay. Um, But isn’t that a skill? Right? Isn’t that a skill to learn that? If your boss says something you’re not gonna like, but after the meeting, Oh, knock on the door, say, hey, we need to have a conversation. That’s a skill that you’re teaching them. And I’ve had students come up to me, unfortunately, after our lesson and go, Why? Why do we just learn that thing? I’m like, I don’t know, it was in the lesson plan book. But I don’t know why we can’t learn that either. But I’m sorry.
Tomorrow’s a new day.
But you know what, but when they you know, when that would happen, my heart will will be full because I’m like, we have that relationship. Like, they know that they can come to me and go, What was and sometimes it will have a purpose. I’ve been like, okay, hold on, but we build into and they’re like, oh, okay, you know, but we have that, like, they know that I’m open, that they can come and go, Okay, can you explain that to me? Or that wasn’t okay. Or, you know, I know, you saw him hit him and you didn’t need to go correct that. You know, but we have that relationship that they can come in and talk to me about it. But just a little asterisk to that is one of those things that I teach in my building healthy student relationships class, is even though you build that relationship, never lie to your students. So I used to tell them, if you tell me something that I have to report, I am going to report it. So like never, never said like everything come to me is a secret I’m gonna keep it all to myself.
Marcus Stein 28:30
Dr. Desiree Alexander 28:31
No, because if you tell me something I need to report um, I’m gonna let you know I’m reporting it, but I am going to report it. So just part of having that healthy student relationship. But yeah, I’m gonna say bring your students on the journey with you. You know, tell them hey, if you say something, or one of your classmates say something, you can let me know, I can bring it up. You can bring it but it’s all about being respectful in that space. So yeah.
Marcus Stein 28:55
One more question. And we like asking this one. This is going to be fun. Who is a teacher who has inspired you? Throughout your education? Somebody you want to give a shout out to somebody you want to say, Hey, girl, hey, or Hey, guy. Hey, anybody right now who’s inspired you? Now’s your chance.
Dr. Desiree Alexander 29:12
Absolutely. Automatically Miss Ella Thomas. She taught me in sixth grade. And then I was in eighth grade. I don’t know. It was one of them grades. But it was middle school. And she was just one of those life changing teachers for me that I can actually go talk to about life and about work and she was an ELA teacher and I love ELA. And she’s just a good instructional teacher, a good disciplinarian. Um, just I just love, love, love, love, love her. And she she also does stuff in the community. So she was just, you know, she knew that she was she actually lived down the street from where I live, and just does a phenomenal Oh, parsing of phenomena educator. So, absolutely. And unfortunately, I talked about her on some podcast or something a couple of years ago and went to reach out and found out that she had passed away. So that wasn’t a good I’m, I’m, I missed it. So not always makes me a little bit more emotional. But um, yeah, so Miss Ella Thomas is awesome.
Marcus Stein 30:28
Shout out, she listenin’ nonetheless. Shout out.
Chelsea Metreyeon 30:31
I love that question, it gives me chills, because I saw your face light up when he asked that question. And you could walk up to anyone on any street anywhere and say, name a teacher who inspired you, and they would have that person right from the get go. So back to those first year teachers that you were like the stay, we need you. This is why years years years later, you’re thinking of this one teacher who impacted your life. It’s just amazing. I have chills.
Dr. Desiree Alexander 30:59
And once your teacher always save you’ve taught for one day, you are their teacher like that’s it, you have made an impact, whether positive or negative, hopefully positive. But even if you’ve taught from them for one day, you are on the roster of teachers, so and you may never hear from them that you’ve made an impact on their life. But you have
Chelsea Metreyeon 31:21
I love that.
Marcus Stein 31:24
What a conversation. Like I honestly feel like I wanted this episode to go on for at least another hour. Some of the conversations had conversations in them. But I think my biggest takeaway was thinking about the words we use. Semantics, like thinking about your words, and the impact of those words. And the impact on equity is just profound for me so big thank you to my good friend Desiree, Dr. Alexander, Chelsea, any big takeaways for you today?
Chelsea Metreyeon 31:51
Yes, my biggest takeaway was that word success. Who’s defining it? Why is it being defined that way? And how can we look at each individual and what success means to them because it’s probably not the same as the person they’re next to. So thank you for bringing that up today.
Dr. Desiree Alexander 32:06
Well, thank you all so much for having me. This discussion on equity is always you know, wanted and always needed, and no one has all of the answers. But thank you so so much for just opening having the conversation.
Marcus Stein 32:28
Friends, it’s time for us to go. Womp womp. But we’ll be back.
Chelsea Metreyeon 32:35
Thanks to our fabulous guest. It’s been awesome chatting with you today.
Marcus Stein 32:39
Everybody out there. Listen, we want to hear your thoughts on this episode. You could catch us on the social medias, as @kamiapp.
Chelsea Metreyeon 32:47
and make sure you use the hashtag, #teacherteacher
Marcus Stein 32:50
and if you need the show notes, the transcript or other resources we got you head over to our website kamiapp.com/podcast. For all of the podcast goodness.
Chelsea Metreyeon 33:01
Teacher Teacher was brought to you by Kami, an interactive learning platform with intuitive tools to not only help you reimagine lessons, assignments and feedback, but to help your students love learning.
Marcus Stein 33:14
This episode was hosted by my girl Chelsea Metreyeon and yours truly, Marcus Stein.
Chelsea Metreyeon 33:20
Catch you next time!
Marcus Stein 33:21
See ya friends!
3 Feb 2022 | 38:50 minutesListen to podcast
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